I will be interested to see how this affects the resistance to the US occupation of Iraq. Some will probably argue that this will make things easier for the US, but I think the opposite may happen. Many articles have cited the fact that some people fear driving the US out of Iraq because that would allow Saddam Hussein to return to power.
Now that he is captured, are those people more likely to attack the US to get it out? Maybe their fear of Saddam Hussein was the only thing keeping the lid on a lot of the hostility.
This isn't to say I'm not glad he was captured, and certainly that he was captured rather than killed. He was an evil man, even if I don't think that justified an unprovoked attack by our country. I can't imagine how our government can allow a real public trial for him. Are they going to allow his defense to bring up things like the fact we provided satellite intelligence to him when he was gassing Iranians and others during the Iraq/Iraq war, or that Rumsfeld was happy to meet with him during that time? I doubt it.
__
For a more in-depth take on this, see Whiskey Bar's post.
How does it feel to be on the wrong side of history? How will history remember this moment? Did you see the Iraqi people in the streets? It was almost PALPABLE!!!
Did it make you feel good to be an American for a SPLIT second? I felt so happy for these people I actually started to cry.
If so, then this war is justified. If not, then I really don't know what to tell other than your morals are somewhere else.
Is the world a safer place without Saddam? YES. Is this conflict over? NO.
I really do not understand how you can be against this war. Yes, I know war is a nasty evil...but don't you think with a DEMOCRATIC IRAQ in the CENTER of the Middle East...other countries will follow suit? (Not by American force, but from within) We have already seen many demonstrations in Iran by Iranian students that are FED UP with their theocracy.
We know the women in these countries such as the Sudan, Nigeria, Oman, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Lebanon, Syria, Iran, Kuwait, Bahrain, Yemen, etc...want to be free and be equal.
Now a TRUE LIBERAL would want these same freedoms that we take for granted...for these people. How can you take the stand as a Liberal that this war is not justified...would you keep everything as status quo in the Middle East and Africa, where women are raped and then killed to "SAVE THE HONOR" of the family? What kind of Liberal are you?
I leave you with this....
"Freedom is not America's gift to the world...but God's gift to mankind"
Think about that....and then think about the justification of the war...
It makes my brain hurt to respond to comments that are this stupid, so I'll use bullet points.
- You should try to use a real news outlet other than Fox once in a while so that you realize that Iraq was not an Islamic state under Hussein, unlike Kuwait and Sauri Arabia. Women held jobs and positions of power. You can't compare them to those two countries we consider allies in the area of women's rights. Women in Baghdad are now in a worse position than they were before the war:
http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml?i=20031229&s=sandler
- If freedom is "God's gift to mankind", he's doing a damn lousy job of it.
- The pro-democracy demonstrations in Iran began before we decided to bomb Iraq into "freedom."
- The Bush regime used cooked intelligence to argue that we had to attack Iraq because they represented an imminent threat to the US. The human rights argument came later after everyone realized how weak Iraq's military was, and that they had no WMD.
- To argue that the women of Iraq, a secular state, are the reason we did this is laughable when we are propping up the rulers of Kuwait and Saudi Arabia. The latter won't even let our female soldiers be outside of the bases without a man accompanying them, or be allowed to drive. Bush would have been laughed off the stage if he had argued that liberating women was our reason for attacking Iraq.
- Do you really think the American people would have agreed to go to war to "liberate the Iraqi people" if they hadn't been lied about regarding the threat posed by Iraq?
- We're not going to impose democracy on another country using bombs and tanks. Iraq is an artificial construct created by the British Empire. It was designed to require a strongman to hold it together.
- We're not much of an example for democracy at this point, having a president "elected" by less than a majority, and the polls leading up to the war showed the majority of Americans opposed to unilateral action against Iraq, even with the lies about the threat level.
- I don't think the American people think it is more important to go to war with every country that has human rights abuses than it is for us to have functioning healthcare, education, and transportation systems. We are spending money in Iraq when we lack the funds to even maintain the status quo in our own country. The idea that we have a right to drop cluster bombs in civilian neighborhoods (as we did in Baghdad) for "progress" is monstrous.
Well being that I am the only one on this "blogger"...I'll give you some of my mind.
This response will be quick, I am at work.
You still haven't answered my question. Stop with this socratic method where you ask me questions in response to my questions.
That being said...
What do you know about being an American?
Yes...I just questioned your American ideals...
What do you want from this country? Honestly?
I'll write back in depth when I get a chance later on...
I am really struggling to understand your lack of understanding about right and wrong. Good and evil.
I know what you are going to say...everything in life is not so black and white...which is correct
That is true until a point...TERRORISM
You do not give in to terrorists...look at what happened with jimmy carter. During his 'reign' some of the worst terrorist acts happened to our guys in the Middle East...assuming you are old enough to remember that far back.
I am not trying to censor your ideals and I really don't mind that you have a difference of opinion...in fact I like that you have your own thoughts...thats American...I see where you are coming from, but I think there is more to it than you think...and at the same time less to it.
Andrew B.
Saddam Hussein had nothing to do with 9/11, and neither did most of the people we have killed in Afghanistan, or any of the people we killed in Iraq. Neither did most of the people we're holding, with no plans to put them on trial or release them, at Guantanamo Bay.
I do think the people responsible for 9/11 should be brought to justice. I don't believe what we did in Afghanistan resulted in that. That country is now so chaotic all of the aid organizations are leaving.
I don't believe America should have a foreign policy that consists solely of using force to get our way, and screw the rest of the world. We will not always be the richest and most powerful country on earth, so we should think about having friends that want us for more than our big consumer market and our weapons systems.
Don't tell me I don't know the difference between right and wrong. I live in NYC and used to work in the World Trade Center in the late 80s and early 90s. I'm not interested in hearing from people who think dropping cluster bombs on Iraq is somehow fighting terrorism. I feel less safe than I did on September 12, 2001, not more.
To debate you on these points is like debating whether the earth is flat. It's a waste of time. I'm done.
Whoa...hold up there cowboy...
Are you insane? You really think that Iraq had nothing to do with September 11th, 2001? Man, before I was being nice, but now the gloves are off. I can careless if Saddam was a secularist...the fact remains that O.B.L. and Hussein had a common enemy...US!!! How long will it take for an individual like you to realize that...
Let me ask you a question...Socrates...
Would you rather go through the U.N. and let that bureaucracy take over our sovereignty. Oh wait...this is the same UN that lets LIBYA and CUBA sit on the HUMAN RIGHT COMMISSION...don't you find something strange or even IRONIC about that? Or even having IRAQ serve on the Weapons disarmament commitee. Or even having Syria for a time, as the president of the security council. I just don't understand your love for the UN and this misconception that we are in this alone. Do you really want me to list all the countries that are with us on this war? If my memory serves me right...I believe there are 50-60 countries CONTRIBUTING in some way or another...meaning Logistically, Finiancially, Militarily, etc...so don't give me this that we are "UNILATERALLY" doing something here...
The fact remains that there were 16 resolutions...ALL OF WHICH he broke and LIED right to KOFI ANNAN's FACE...let alone to the world community.
And for the WMD's...I feel sorry for you and your ilk when Saddam gives up the goods about those weapons and we find them...most likely in Syria or in the Bacaa Valley in Lebanon...
You really think that the Taliban had nothing to do with 9/11? If you thought Afghanistan is lawless now...let me CLUE YOU IN ON SOMETHING...
That country NEVER had a CENTRAL government...only a group of thugs that waved a Quran around with swords and guns. If you think I extending the truth...why don't you ask an Afghani how they feel about America coming into their country to get rid of the Taliban. At my job in NYC, as you put it, I get to work with people from all across the globe. I don't know what planet you live on but virtually EVERY person i have spoken to in regards to this war and the Afghanistan war was justified...this kind of war is not like World War 2 where you can just look at the outfits that the other team had and point and shoot and kill. For fuck's sake these people want to KILL you because you are an AMERICAN and it would be a bonus if you were and / or Jewish, Christian, Gay, Black, Female, etc... you get my point.
So let me ask you this...would you rather finish this war and have a DEMOCRACY right SMACK in the middle of the MIDDLE EAST, where finally the Arab culture could pick up where it left off a millenia ago.
You might think I am some right wing nut case...but the fact remains I am a registered DEMOCRAT..I VOTED FOR GORE in 2000...and get this I RESPECT ARABS...oh my did he just say that? Yes, I did...in fact i am teaching myself Arabic, Hebrew, and Farsi so that I can communicate with these people to get to the root of why they hate us...but you know why they hate us? I know what you're thnking...yawn...US IMPERIALISM...god how cliche....
Did it ever occur to you that these people are angry because their societies and culture have no progressed because dare i say it, but they are not democracies...or even functioning Monarchies...they are just there, waiting for someone to help them.
And who says that i get my info from "Fox"
Wait let me guess you get yours from:
indymedia
BBC World News
NPR????
or better yet from A.N.S.W.E.R.
You do know that A.N.S.W.E.R. is a communist front group for a group called The World Worker's Party...a self DECLARED STALINIST group. Do some research...
Your turn...
i like this...this is a dialogue...
Isn't this what you want? You do have a blogger right? This is for comments...and discussion.
I am open to discussion...in fact if I make you so mad that get up and rip hair out of your head and you hate my guts cuz of it...i did my job. I want you to think. Don't run away...I am not a wacko ultra conservative that damns you for any misgivings.
i am a rational human being with a heart, believe it or not and I am trying to understand why you would think the way you do.
I suspect that the 2000 election has something to do with it. At first i was pissed off that Gore didn't win, but I accepted that "DUBYA" was my president.
Andrew B.
This has nothing to do with the typical leftist rant of "IMPERIALISM" for god sake this is a Capitalist society. if you want to live in a Socialist society I suggest move to Sweden or Denmark or any European country that use
BTW here's your link to Al-Qaeda to Saddam.
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=36124
Andrew B.
Andrew B,
Maybe you trust the worldnetdaily.com website more than Fearless Leader.
Notice, when he said "I can't make that claim"
Bush admitted there was no direct link between Iraq and 9/11 in a press conference on Jan 31, 2003.
Now, the question becomes: What do you know that the President doesn't?
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2003/01/20030131-23.html
And, in case you trust your source too much: Worldnetdaily is put out by the Western Journalism Center, which got its start in the Vincent Foster case that went nowhere.
Hey eric,
guess what? The guy that runs WND (World Net Daily) is yup you guessed it, ARAB.
Vincent Foster was murdered and probably has a pair of cement shoes in the Potomac River. I can see you have done your homework.
Impressive...share some more young one...
All i have to say is...will you people FINALLY SHUT THE FUCK UP, when ALL the evidence is revealed about his weapons programs.
I mean really, won't you feel silly if not ashamed when they do find it or will simply say that the AMERICAN government had PLACED the weapons there....
Typical....but please entertain me with your dogface of doom and gloom.
Andrew B.
Andrew B,
Joseph Farah is an Arab American - but also a Christian, and points out such wonderful things like why Jerusalem is irrelevant to Islam. Not exactly what most Muslims believe, though. So, to state that he's an "ARAB" and imply that his ethnicity makes everything he says okay, is absurd. Like you, he clearly has something he wants to rant about, and that makes him and his publication a biased source. Vincent Foster wasn't the point of my argument. The point was that this is a biased "news" source, and is just itching for a connection that doesn't exist. Osama Bin Ladin and his terrorists wanted the Baath party to fall just as much as Bush and Cheney did.
And you still failed to address how George Bush denied a link between Iraq and 9/11, yet you continue to maintain that one exists.
Also, you name the exact location of these WMD's (even down to the specific valley in Jordan).
That's impressive, why don't you tell the government, since we can't seem to find them.
When you have something relevant to say, other than just "YOU'LL SEE! YOU'LL ALL SEE!" as your worldview falls apart, feel free to contribute again. Until then, stop wasting your own time and get back to putting your head in the sand.
And, for the bit about Farah on Jerusalem:
http://www.mideasttruth.com/farah.html
All I have to say to you is I feel sorry for you. I think there is an empty hole near Tikrit, Iraq...when the news comes out...why don't you and your ilk go in and shut the top.
Andrew B.
P.S. - as for other ranting...I'll respond later on when I get home.
Right-Wing Democrats like Andrew B. are of the same ilk as Republican African Americans... sad, and confused. Who needs 'em.